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Post by mttrains on Jun 30, 2014 19:11:52 GMT -5
Could someone give me some clarity on the roof grids on the rebuilt metroliners? I wanted to get some clarification on the styles and approximate dates. Any help would be great please.  Thank you in advance. |
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Post by backshophoss on Jul 1, 2014 0:39:45 GMT -5
Believe the test pair of Metroliners with the blisters was around '72-'73,1 done by GE,the other by
Westinghouse. Not sure when the overhaul was done to the rest of the fleet.
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Post by mttrains on Jul 4, 2014 7:30:40 GMT -5
Okay. Thanks. I didn't know it was that early. I will look into it.
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Post by backshophoss on Jul 4, 2014 17:17:05 GMT -5
Amtrak figured out after they were running the sets with PC crews that some sort of mod was needed,
as did USDOT,there was some overheating issues along with HVAC issues,from the published reports
back then.
Some of the systems were "New Tech" back then!
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jul 4, 2014 23:13:35 GMT -5
Believe the test pair of Metroliners with the blisters was around '72-'73,1 done by GE,the other by Westinghouse. Not sure when the overhaul was done to the rest of the fleet. This is not accurate. GE didn't rebuild any of them initially, though you're probably right about the 72/73 date. Since the operator's manual makes not mention of Amtrak, it seems this was a Penn Central job. The GE Rebuilds occurred between the summer of 1979 and 1980, a little less than a decade later. I covered this a few weeks ago in another thread. There is a minor variety to the Metroliner roof humps- #815, #816, #862, and #867 were rebuilt in the mid 1970s by Westinghouse. The documentation referring to these cars (particularly the coaches) suggest this work was at least initiated during the Penn Central Era of these cars. This is consistent with photos in my books, which show these cars operating in New Jersey alongside MP54s, retired in early 1977 from New Jersey service. The book Under Pennsy Wires references an April 1976 photo by saying these modifications were done "a couple years ago". These Westinghouse rebuilt cars had a "rounder" profile roof hump, and from some rare overhead shots, appear to have bumps of some kind on the roof. In addition, on the coaches, half of a mid-train window is blanked out, presumably for the location of air ducts to the roof. Due to high costs, the Westinghouse Rebuild Program was not continued beyond a single train-set. When Amtrak went to rebuild the rest of the metroliners they went with GE. These Rebuilding went on from the summer of 1979 on through to the summer of 1980. GE installed a more angular, peaked roof hump similar to the Model Memories part. Curiously, (according to the book "Amtrak by the Numbers", the Westinghouse-modified Metroliners were amongst the first Metroliners to be rebuilt by GE, but they retained their round Westinghouse style humps. So how is that for confusing? Some GE cars are rebuilt by Westinghouse, only to be rebuilt by GE again. However, the overwelming majority of rebuilt Metroliners are of the GE style. Besides, GE didn't do anything to the windows visible externally, so these are naturally easier to model. Compare #867 (Westinghouse Rebuilt) to #889 (GE Rebuilt)- rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3556189rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1183686 |
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Post by mttrains on Jul 7, 2014 19:01:47 GMT -5
Thank you for the info cab4. Where did you get your info from? I would not mind looking into it myself.
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Post by backshophoss on Jul 8, 2014 1:03:13 GMT -5
Check the Book "Amtrak by the Numbers" done by the crew at PTJ,in reference resources thread there are links to 2 on-line rosters that are fairly updated. You might try Wikipedia,be aware the material is open to editing by almost anybody,any time. The "grapevine" info about how the Metroliners performed was long before the internet/facebook era.  There were 1-2 RT's in/out of New Haven(that was the end of catenary back then) in the early Amtrak years. |
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Post by mttrains on Jul 10, 2014 10:30:53 GMT -5
I will check it out. Thanks again.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jul 11, 2014 23:27:17 GMT -5
Thank you for the info cab4. Where did you get your info from? I would not mind looking into it myself. My main sources have been "Under Pennsy Wires" by Carsten's publishing, the operator's manuals (both Budd's for the As-built cars and Westinghouse for cars 815 and 816). Another major reasource has been the magazine "Headlights", specifically the February 1974 issue, which gets into an in depth technical discussion of the metroliner and its sub-systems, as well as the history of the Metroliner program. Speaking of this headlights issue, It seems I even missed some details regarding the early 70s rebuilding. While it doesn't give dates, it is clear that GE rebuilt its own Cafes and Club cars. A photo is provided of #867 on the GE test track, and the photo is credited to GE. The captions reads: At AMTRAK's request, two cars (862 and 867) were returned to GE for modifications that would increase reliability and improve acceleration. New electronic cards were installed to control motors and the M-A set. Resistors were moved to the roof. All air to cool control components is now drawn through roof vents. Four General Electric No. 1260 motors of 300 HP replaced the original 255 HP No. 1254 motors. A new gearbox coupled with the higher horse-power motors gives significantly higher acceleration while rationalizing the top speed downward from 160 to 130 MPH. A new brushless motor-alternator set was installed. Finally, the trucks were totally redesigned. Two cars were also shipped to westinghouse for similar modifications. At the same time disquieting rumors have escaped Washington indicating that AMTRAK has been pondering removing the motors from all Metroliners and hauling them behind locomotives. GE PhotoIt is known from my operators manual that the two westinghouse rebuilt cars are 815 and 816. It seems my earlier assumption that 862 and 867 were also rebuilt by westinghouse was wrong. This is why it is wise to never assume anything! Still, the details I have mentioned are accurate, They are all based from photos (most of which I have linked here previously). Amtrak by the Numbers is useful, but it is flawed in that it doesn't count these original rebuildings at all, nor does it mention them anyway. It only counts the GE rebuildings in the late 70s and early 80s. |
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Post by mp85803 on Aug 13, 2014 15:21:33 GMT -5
Actually I believe only cars 815 and 816 were modified by Westinghouse and cars 862 and 867 were modified by GE in the mid 1970s for the DOT and Penn Central sometime around 1974 as a pilot program to increase the reliability of the cars. The idea was to evaluate the modifications for an eventual upgrade of the remaining fleet. I have a copy of the Westinghouse "Instructions Operator's Manual, Metroliner Updating Program" which specifically mentions cars 815 and 816 and a copy of the General Electric Maintenance Manual (Volume I & II) for the "Upgraded Metroliner cars 862 and 867". This would support that GE actually upgraded these two cafés and not Westinghouse. The rounded auxiliary roof may have been designed by the railroad or a third party (maybe even Budd?) that both GE and Westinghouse used for these four cars. Only the two coaches (Westinghouse) appear to have bumps of some kind on top of the auxiliary roof, not the two cafés. GE may have simplified the auxiliary roof design for fabrication purposes when they rebuilt the remainder of the cars. I do not have a list of the 34 car numbers that GE rebuilt at Erie back in 1979/80 but I would question if these four "prototypes" were actually rebuilt again. If you look closely at the photo link to car 867 (in earlier post) it appears there isn't any thin, white stripe on the outside edges of the red and blue stripes, only the white pinstripe between the red and blue stripes leading to the possibility the car was repainted in house and not by GE. It is easier to see this if you look at the stripes on the side door behind the cab.
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Post by backshophoss on Oct 8, 2014 2:23:35 GMT -5
The "as delivered" PC/Amtrak "patched" Metroliners,should start showing up
soon according to the 2015 Walters Catalog pg 70 as will the ph II version,
with Oct,Nov,and Dec releases depending on car type,MSRP same as last year.
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Post by rails4dmv on Dec 6, 2015 18:58:06 GMT -5
If anyone hasn't picked up a set of Metroliners yet, Walthers seems to be blowing them out right now.
I hope that doesn't mean cab cars are a no go with Walthers.
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Post by backshophoss on Dec 7, 2015 1:50:05 GMT -5
Walters 2016 catalog shows the whole line of Metroliners,however the P1K RDC's
seems to be down to 3 models avaible
The drive system used on the P1K RDC was upgraded for the Metroliners
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Post by rails4dmv on Dec 7, 2015 13:34:36 GMT -5
I picked up a second set of Metroliners (Phase II) over the Black Friday weekend from Walthers using the extra 15% off. I must admit I like them better than the Phase I cars and will be ordering the Model Memories roof "humps", even though they might be off dimensionally length wise.
I didn't know Walthers updated the RDC drive to use on the Metroliner.
If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if they re-issue the RDC with DCC & Sound like they have done with the Trainline F40PH and possibly a cheaper alternative to the Rapido version.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Dec 11, 2015 15:29:09 GMT -5
If you model #868, you don't have to modify it. This Metroliner was the only one painted that way without rebuilding.  Prototype photo behind a NJ DOT GG1. Fun fact, 4876 was the GG1 that fell through Union Station.  |
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Thank you in advance.
