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Post by backshophoss on Jun 1, 2014 20:26:16 GMT -5
Nice "what if" of the PRR version,as if PC never happened,but figured out the need to move the resistor grids to the roof,which was done for part of the fleet under Amtrak. They have correct looking cat poles for the New Canaan and Danbury Branches. Have correct looking 3rd rail for NYC modelers as well Could use the roof blister to create a SPV-2000,the DMU based on the Amfleet I shell, the cars were added to/cut off from NEC Trains at New Haven to run From/to Springfield Ma. Not sure if the blister can be used with the Bachmann Metroliner shells.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 3, 2014 20:06:14 GMT -5
Ugh, I hate to be a terrible rivet counter, because I'd really like Metroliner roof bumps... but these are terrible.
The biggest problem is that they are WAY TOO SHORT. It needs to be longer by at least one window length.
Secondly, the "ends" slope noticeably to steeply.
A third potential problem is that top of the roofs might not have this exact arrangement. Some of the roof humps were different, in particular, the 4 "prototypes", which had an entirely different contour and arrangement of the roof vents from "production" Rebuilt Metroliners.
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 4, 2014 19:26:12 GMT -5
Unless you can get access to the orignal shop drawings,you wind up guessing certain measutements from photos at the time,this could be what Budd and PRR figured out just before the PC merger date. Remember there was a Push from FedDOT to get the Metroliners into service. I give credit for what Model Memories did with the info they had avaible. If anything there may have been differences due the 2 electric suppliers used(GE and Westinghouse). Nothing a cutting + splicing some sheetstock in could correct.(worse case) In other news Horizen/Athearn is announcing a run of SW-1500's in phase V paint.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 4, 2014 21:52:27 GMT -5
I don't think you could splice two of these kits. Besides, when they got back to me, they insisted that they checked photos, but if they did, they must have missed something. perhaps they accidentally counted back to the second window of a Metro club instead of a coach?
Besides, at $28 a piece, they're pretty expensive to have to buy two just to attempt to splice them to get it right. They don't seem receptive to the idea of doing new tooling for it.
I guess things like that frustrate me. It'd be one thing if it was off by a little bit, or if the details were all perfect, but they should have been able to look at a photo and see that they were WAY to short.
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 5, 2014 2:26:21 GMT -5
It takes $$$ to redo a mold for a part,since this is considered a "niche" part,possibly "selective compressed" by accident, not intentionaly. Think in terms of "good enough" level of detail for every day running models at the module setup or the home layout,"split the difference" on how the blister is placed on the model,if looks/feels right go with it. DO NOT let the "nitpickers" drive you NUTS. If the blister scales out about the size of the M-2 Blister,think of where the quarter doors could have been placed on a Metroliner shell,as the M-2 blister spans between the Quarter Door locations at roof level. This is just a thought.
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Post by mgwsy on Jun 5, 2014 14:46:54 GMT -5
It takes $$$ to redo a mold for a part,since this is considered a "niche" part,possibly "selective compressed" by accident, not intentionaly. Think in terms of "good enough" level of detail for every day running models at the module setup or the home layout,"split the difference" on how the blister is placed on the model,if looks/feels right go with it. DO NOT let the "nitpickers" drive you NUTS. If the blister scales out about the size of the M-2 Blister,think of where the quarter doors could have been placed on a Metroliner shell,as the M-2 blister spans between the Quarter Door locations at roof level. This is just a thought. MM says its an etched stainless steel part. No molds are involved and to change it would involve some tweeking of the file, not very hard to do.
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Post by mgwsy on Jun 5, 2014 14:53:13 GMT -5
Some pics I found of real ones.
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Post by acelaphillies on Jun 5, 2014 15:29:54 GMT -5
Mgwsy, thanks for sharing those reference photos. They give a good view of the prototype.
Cab4 and everyone, after looking at the real things, I do agree that the models are "off," with the main problem being the length. It seems like it should definitely go into the second window. However, I think that the models do effectively capture the look without scratch building. That said, if you are planning on purchasing multiple maybe you could approach them with a deal. If mgwsy is correct that it would be easy to adjust the file, you could possibly make them an offer that if they adjust it you will pre-order a certain amount.
Just my two cents.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 5, 2014 16:13:43 GMT -5
I guess I just get frustrated with this sort of thing. I'm not sure this thing has the right contour, but I might have found part of the problem. I found an "updated" operator's manual online someplace years ago. It has a diagram of the sides. Though you cannot always trust diagrams (I've seen some pretty wacky ones for the Silverliner IV, also uploaded in my google docs), In this case, the diagrams are consistent with photos. drive.google.com/file/d/0B43-oJePBkGGOFQ1alg4T1o4Yms/edit?usp=sharing If these drawings are on target, it means that the "display" photo actually has its roof hump installed incorrectly. It needs to be moved forward a little. Still, the slope of the model memories part is a little steep.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 5, 2014 16:24:21 GMT -5
Here is the diagrams outside the google doc for convenience-
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 5, 2014 19:43:52 GMT -5
The wild guess off the photos is about 25 degrees of slope for the ends facing front/rear of the car,roughly the same slope on the ends of the SPV-2000 Rad blister. Not sure what the going rate for Stainless Steel flat stock is,but if the fix is a minor file tweak,figure on the cost to be adjusted. That is up to Model Memories to decide. Like I said in a post upstream,"split the distance" so it looks right,and DON'T let the "nitpickers" drive you NUTS!! Mgsy,thanks for the photos,cab4,thanks for the diagrams.
Remember,it's your model,you decide if you want to use the part.
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Post by ihphobbymike on Jun 9, 2014 11:48:07 GMT -5
Unless you can get access to the orignal shop drawings,you wind up guessing certain measutements from photos at the time,this could be what Budd and PRR figured out just before the PC merger date. Remember there was a Push from FedDOT to get the Metroliners into service. I give credit for what Model Memories did with the info they had avaible. If anything there may have been differences due the 2 electric suppliers used(GE and Westinghouse). Nothing a cutting + splicing some sheetstock in could correct.(worse case) In other news Horizen/Athearn is announcing a run of SW-1500's in phase V paint. I should have given Don the information I have on the Metroliner auxiliary roofs, as I have all that data. It's a tricky thing to model and there are differences up top. Maybe I'll talk with him about doing a corrected one. A PE part like he did might be better than a cast or printed one because you want to have some of that see-through effect. Those signal bridges look beautiful, though. Don does great work in all his products. The SPV auxiliary roof is completely different from anything else, and for that matter, the carbody is different from an Amfleet car in enough ways. I came to the conclusion long ago that there wasn't enough interest in the SPV for a kit, but the SPV is so different and requires so much work to build one that that a kit is really a cheaper and better idea for the modeler than offering conversion parts for an available Amfleet car. Mike Bartel IHP ihphobby.tripod.comwww.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 9, 2014 19:03:52 GMT -5
When I looked at Model Memories site,there was no discription with it,figured on it to be a plastic part not wafer thin stainless steel(my bad),the basic reason was to get cooler/clean air for the HVAC systems and to the traction motors and other various subsystems under the frame,as heat was the BIG problem back then
As I understood at the time the SPV-2000 Demo car was built on a spare Amfleet I shell that Budd had in it's factory,had the flat front on the "B" end,a Metroliner style cab nose on the "A" end. It's unknown if Budd made any spare Metroliner shells,or cab noses for that matter. The SPV roof blister had 3 exhaust ports(2 engines and 1 APU)and 5-6 fans for the rads and AC coils, from what I remember(when CDOT 50 aka"Lizzie" was working the Danbury branch).
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Post by mgwsy on Jun 10, 2014 16:39:54 GMT -5
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Post by mgwsy on Jun 10, 2014 16:56:25 GMT -5
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