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Post by backshophoss on Jun 10, 2014 19:54:47 GMT -5
Mgsy,Thanks much,were the pics taken at Springfield Ma.? Not sure when ConnDOT turned them into Push-Pull cars. They were in the 988-999 series when 1st put in service in phase II paint with Amtrak, with 1 lone exception CDOT 50(aka "Lizzie") that split time on the Danbury/Waterbury Branches of the Metro Region of CR. Nice pic of Florida Fun Train F-40ph.
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Post by mgwsy on Jun 11, 2014 12:58:17 GMT -5
Yes the pics were in Springfield, MA and the one of one of the F40's and FFT unit was across the river in West Springfield, MA pulling the Boston Section of the Lake Shore ltd.
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Post by acelaphillies on Jun 11, 2014 14:17:02 GMT -5
Mark, stellar photos. They are a great resource, thanks.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 11, 2014 22:01:31 GMT -5
Unless you can get access to the orignal shop drawings,you wind up guessing certain measutements from photos at the time,this could be what Budd and PRR figured out just before the PC merger date. Remember there was a Push from FedDOT to get the Metroliners into service. I give credit for what Model Memories did with the info they had avaible. If anything there may have been differences due the 2 electric suppliers used(GE and Westinghouse). Nothing a cutting + splicing some sheetstock in could correct.(worse case) There is a minor variety to the Metroliner roof humps- #815, #816, #862, and #867 were rebuilt in the mid 1970s by Westinghouse. The documentation referring to these cars (particularly the coaches) suggest this work was at least initiated during the Penn Central Era of these cars. This is consistent with photos in my books, which show these cars operating in New Jersey alongside MP54s, retired in early 1977 from New Jersey service. The book Under Pennsy Wires references an April 1976 photo by saying these modifications were done "a couple years ago". These Westinghouse rebuilt cars had a "rounder" profile roof hump, and from some rare overhead shots, appear to have bumps of some kind on the roof. In addition, on the coaches, half of a mid-train window is blanked out, presumably for the location of air ducts to the roof. Due to high costs, the Westinghouse Rebuild Program was not continued beyond a single train-set. When Amtrak went to rebuild the rest of the metroliners they went with GE. These Rebuilding went on from the summer of 1979 on through to the summer of 1980. GE installed a more angular, peaked roof hump similar to the Model Memories part. Curiously, (according to the book "Amtrak by the Numbers", the Westinghouse-modified Metroliners were amongst the first Metroliners to be rebuilt by GE, but they retained their round Westinghouse style humps. So how is that for confusing? Some GE cars are rebuilt by Westinghouse, only to be rebuilt by GE again. However, the overwelming majority of rebuilt Metroliners are of the GE style. Besides, GE didn't do anything to the windows visible externally, so these are naturally easier to model. Compare #867 (Westinghouse Rebuilt) to #889 (GE Rebuilt)- rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3556189rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1183686 I should have given Don the information I have on the Metroliner auxiliary roofs, as I have all that data. It's a tricky thing to model and there are differences up top. Maybe I'll talk with him about doing a corrected one. A PE part like he did might be better than a cast or printed one because you want to have some of that see-through effect. Those signal bridges look beautiful, though. Don does great work in all his products. The SPV auxiliary roof is completely different from anything else, and for that matter, the carbody is different from an Amfleet car in enough ways. I came to the conclusion long ago that there wasn't enough interest in the SPV for a kit, but the SPV is so different and requires so much work to build one that that a kit is really a cheaper and better idea for the modeler than offering conversion parts for an available Amfleet car. Mike Bartel IHP ihphobby.tripod.comwww.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobbyDidn't you offer a SPV-2000 model a few years ago? I could have sworn I saw one somewhere. Perhaps now with the 3D printing, demand will not longer be an issue. Hopefully, the cost of an HO shell will come down sometime.
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 12, 2014 2:17:52 GMT -5
I had figured on there would be some "quirks" due to GE/Westinghouse equipment on board the car. the only clue to what was on the cars was the pan on top. When Amtrak started to "recycle" them into coaches,the blisters were removed,ConnDOT did the same thing with the SPV's,but,they kept their blisters. Mike,Take a look at mgsy's pics,the only real changes were the ends and the blister, and the required underframe equipment.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 12, 2014 10:58:59 GMT -5
I had figured on there would be some "quirks" due to GE/Westinghouse equipment on board the car. the only clue to what was on the cars was the pan on top. When Amtrak started to "recycle" them into coaches,the blisters were removed,ConnDOT did the same thing with the SPV's,but,they kept their blisters. Mike,Take a look at mgsy's pics,the only real changes were the ends and the blister, and the required underframe equipment. I wouldn't say just the pantographs. All the coaches are Westinghouse. All the Cafes and Clubs are GE. If you want to get technical, the underbodies have a totally different arrangement and style. You'll notice the Westinghouse underbodies share a lot of details with the Jersey Arrow I, while the GE cars are of a different style and arrangement. Its distinctive enough to tell the difference in photos if you know what to look for. Some of the Metroliner cab cars and "hauled" coaches did maintain their roof humps for a while (some didn't even initially get their "faces" modified either). In fact, I think that there are some Metroliner cars in storage that still have their humps, or so i'm told. Obviously, none of them are in operation.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 12, 2014 11:17:30 GMT -5
Found it, Bear, Delaware. There are actually two Metroliners with the roof humps there, along with a few others in storage. binged.it/1kroqZU
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 12, 2014 17:08:32 GMT -5
Nice Catch,that was taken before the P-40's were sent to Beech Grove for their trucks to used on the active fleet due to a GE instruction foul-up on truck maintance. Seems like 1 of the shells was grounded to be used as a shed,also 2 reefer cars from the dropped Express service. Will have to dig thru the TT archive at Amtrak to figure out if there was 1 or 2 Metroliner RT's to/from NHV.
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Post by Amtrak207 on Jun 12, 2014 21:01:00 GMT -5
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 13, 2014 1:47:37 GMT -5
I think somebody got their wish.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 13, 2014 11:39:00 GMT -5
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Post by acelaphillies on Jun 13, 2014 20:56:39 GMT -5
Tom, thanks for sharing! BSH, I agree--Antonio you got your wish!!! Cab4, in addition to roof humps, how much modification to the underbody would it take to make the rebuilt versions 100% accurate? The roof humps would probably be the easier part.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 15, 2014 10:50:49 GMT -5
Apart form the equipment moved to the roof, it looks to me like the GE cars (cafes and clubs) kept their underbody mostly intact when GE rebuilt them. They completely redid the coaches (built by Westinghouse).
The Westinghouse cars rebuilt by Westinghouse has the same layout of equipment (except again, the stuff moved to the roof), but some of the boxes were changed. The GE cars rebuilt by Westinghouse were also completely different.
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Post by backshophoss on Jun 15, 2014 16:14:28 GMT -5
For better or worse,most of the Prototypes have become coaches or cab cars now. For those of us that have a "working" Bachmann model,rebuilding the underframe would become a kitbash with a new from scratch underframe. Toward the end of Metroliner usage,they became towed EMU's behind GG-1's untill enough Amfleet I's were in service.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Jun 15, 2014 23:59:26 GMT -5
For better or worse,most of the Prototypes have become coaches or cab cars now. For those of us that have a "working" Bachmann model,rebuilding the underframe would become a kitbash with a new from scratch underframe. Toward the end of Metroliner usage,they became towed EMU's behind GG-1's untill enough Amfleet I's were in service. Thats not really an accurate claim. The Amfleet Is were all delivered between 1975 and 1977. In the meantime, there were plenty of heritage coaches out there. The Metroliners would be continued to be used into the mid 1980s, almost a decade later. The GG1s were out of service on Amtrak by 1981. GG1 were often called on to haul "dead" or otherwise broken down Metroliner sets, but this wasn't a regular choice. There were some cases of AEM7s hauling Metroliner coaches from 30th Street to Harrisburg, but this was very brief, before being put in storage. Indeed, I question whether these AEM7s movements were even a conscious choice by Amtrak. As I understood it, even these rebuilding programs weren't enough to get all the bugs out, and so I'd be willing to bet that these Metroliners were just broken down.
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