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Post by acelaphillies on Sept 17, 2013 19:44:14 GMT -5
So I've been thinking about (a.k.a. dreaming about ) maybe making a diorama with catenary down the road a bit for my electrics to run under. But every way you look at it, catenary is just so much $$$$. Whether you scratchbuild it or by it from Model Memories (modelmemories.com), to get a decent amount you almost need to take out a mortgage. I think that this is what stops so many people from doing it. I think if you ask around the modeling community, you would find a lot of people who would tell you "That sounds neat, I would love to do that some day." But they just never get around with it. Most modelers seem to be facinated by heavy-electric layouts. I also think that the NEC sparks a lot of interest, whether the PRR GG-1 era, or the Amtrak Acela era and everything in between. So my question is, if a manufacturer mass produced American-style injection-molded styrene or ABS catenary supports, do you think they would sell well? A few years ago, brass would have been the only option because if detail and strength. But obviously some of the new locos these days have shown just how much manufacturers can do with plastic. Also, if it was a one-piece construction I don't think the poles would be too weak. Obviously, the wires would need to be metal. I think that if a manufacturer was to do this, the best choice would be to make the PRR-style towers because they probably have the largest appeal. In my mind there are a few manufacturers that could, and would consider, pulling this off: Bachmann, Walthers, Atlas, or even IHP (now that Mike is dipping into the injection-molded field). What do you guys think? P.S. Paul, I didn't forget about getting more pictures of the truck
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Post by mgwsy on Sept 18, 2013 8:42:36 GMT -5
Its hard to say as the only models for electrics are GG1's and Acela sets. Even the AEM-7 Atlas did is getting harder to find. I would be all in for it but the best bet would be to use wire from sommerfeldt and either use the Euro style poles are scratchbuild poles from brass stock. www.sommerfeldt.de/ Or use the products available from Viessmann too.
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Post by mgwsy on Sept 18, 2013 8:46:41 GMT -5
On that note though I dont think you will see any of the US manufacturers getting into making catenary sets but if I had to choose I can almost be certtain that Bachmann could pull it off. Question is how detailed do you want it. I have the somerfeldt design book and I recommend it to anyone interested in catenary just for the pics and ideas in it unless you can read german. www.sommerfeldt.de/index5.html One place I know that sells it was Time Machine Hobby in Manchester CT. Onother would be one of the European shops online.
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Post by backshophoss on Sept 18, 2013 18:12:27 GMT -5
If it's possible,it could be based on the setup used by Amtrak from fair street(NHV) to Boston S Station,using heavy "H" + "I" beam construction. That may hold up better then the orignal PRR construction for hobby use and moduler setups,also used for some recent light rail projects in the US.
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Post by acelaphillies on Sept 19, 2013 6:09:41 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. IF a US manufacturer did get into catenary, I think it would be Bachmann as well. They seem to produce the most electric locomotives.
Backshophoss, could the European products be used to represent the poles at the North End of the NEC?
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Post by backshophoss on Sept 19, 2013 21:22:04 GMT -5
I'll leave that to modelers decision(aka,"beauty is in the eye of the beholder")and the ability to adapt what is available to the project.
The other option would be to "scratchbuild" what you need from Plastruc or Evergreen stock. Both Kalmbach and Carstens did traction modeling books in the past,unknown if they are still in print or in digital format now but covered the basics of construction of overhead wire.
Sader-Kan(Bachmann)would be the best bet for mass production if the PRR designs were made a "bit" oversize.(5%)
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Post by mgwsy on Sept 20, 2013 16:35:54 GMT -5
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Post by backshophoss on Sept 21, 2013 0:34:25 GMT -5
This is cab 4's work and involves some metal work as well,but seems to to be "Heavy Duty" enough for modules,that thread is 6 pages long.
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Post by acelaphillies on Sept 25, 2013 15:19:34 GMT -5
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Post by gmpullman on Feb 5, 2014 5:20:25 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. IF a US manufacturer did get into catenary, I think it would be Bachmann as well. They seem to produce the most electric locomotives. Backshophoss, could the European products be used to represent the poles at the North End of the NEC? My feeling is that Bachmann would aim for the high volume/mass market arena. I don't picture them getting into catenary anytime soon. I think we would have a better chance to try to talk Don Tichy of Tichy train Group to produce some catenary components. As I recall the upright legs of his steel water tower are pretty darn close to catenary support structures. Take a look at Tichy quality and see if you don't agree that he could produce insulators, poles, cross arms and transformers and such. TichyI think if Bachmann or Walthers or any of the "big guns" were ever to produce catenary they would probably feel compelled to offer it as a complete "System" with wire, power feeds, etc. whereas an outfit like Tichy (or maybe Jason at Rapido) could offer components as scratch building supplies. I would love to make a diorama or some kind of "portable" catenary setup for use in taking photos or displaying models. A full "working" catenary system on my layout would be a project that I don't have enough years to complete! Plus, it would definitely be a headache to work around when I need accessibility after a derailment of to do scenery or maintenance work... Anybody else have an opinion? Happy modeling, Ed
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Post by acelaphillies on Feb 5, 2014 10:11:32 GMT -5
I agree with both of you. IF a US manufacturer did get into catenary, I think it would be Bachmann as well. They seem to produce the most electric locomotives. Backshophoss, could the European products be used to represent the poles at the North End of the NEC? My feeling is that Bachmann would aim for the high volume/mass market arena. I don't picture them getting into catenary anytime soon. I think we would have a better chance to try to talk Don Tichy of Tichy train Group to produce some catenary components. As I recall the upright legs of his steel water tower are pretty darn close to catenary support structures. Take a look at Tichy quality and see if you don't agree that he could produce insulators, poles, cross arms and transformers and such. TichyI think if Bachmann or Walthers or any of the "big guns" were ever to produce catenary they would probably feel compelled to offer it as a complete "System" with wire, power feeds, etc. whereas an outfit like Tichy (or maybe Jason at Rapido) could offer components as scratch building supplies. I would love to make a diorama or some kind of "portable" catenary setup for use in taking photos or displaying models. A full "working" catenary system on my layout would be a project that I don't have enough years to complete! Plus, it would definitely be a headache to work around when I need accessibility after a derailment of to do scenery or maintenance work... Anybody else have an opinion? Happy modeling, Ed I believe Don Tichy does already make PRR style insulators. I agree that he would probably be a more likely candidate, but I would rule him out because he would probably produce something very similar to what Model Memories produces. I am not sure if the market is big enough to support them both.
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Post by jers2709 on Feb 5, 2014 16:23:54 GMT -5
I'm gonna be using Andy Rubbo's style of catenary building. Here's a photo of his in action:
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Post by backshophoss on Feb 5, 2014 16:55:14 GMT -5
Is there a chance of Mr Rubbo showing how he does his construction in this forum or has he been published in one of the Model RR mags??
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Post by gmpullman on Feb 5, 2014 20:37:55 GMT -5
Boy, Acelaphillies— You're going to cost me a lot of money!
You have me fired up about installing catenary on a stretch of two level main line about sixteen feet (8' x 2 mains, 2 track & 3 track respectively)
The tapered leg New Haven style looks pretty close to the tapered leg supports used here in the Cleveland area on the C. U. T. then on the lower main I would use PRR "K" style. Just enough length for a suitable photo prop. No way I'd do the entire 235' main line! I'll leave that to Andy Rubbo.
[edit] I'm sure you all have your favorite references for Pennsy and New Haven "wire" but lately I've been browsing through the PRRTHS Spring 1997 Keystone (V.30 #1) and there's a great article in there by a George L. Pitz that is a trove of information!
So, that brings me to your mention of Model Memories. I bought one of their NYC 2 track cantilevered signal bridges, I'll bet over ten years ago. Beautiful piece of work. So can you or any other forum members tell me if you have had any dealings with them? It's sad but there are the occasional orphan links to businesses that have gone out of business or no longer stock any merchandise. I have looked at MM's site quite a few times but never ordered anything direct.
I'd like to put together an order to MM and get started on this project... Of course, I guess I could just shoot off a message to Don Silberbauer and ask him personally but I thought I'd see if anyone here has anything to suggest?
Thanks, Ed
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Post by acelaphillies on Feb 5, 2014 21:04:51 GMT -5
Boy, Acelaphillies— You're going to cost me a lot of money!
So, that brings me to your mention of Model Memories. I bought one of their NYC 2 track cantilevered signal bridges, I'll bet over ten years ago. Beautiful piece of work. So can you or any other forum members tell me if you have had any dealings with them? It's sad but there are the occasional orphan links to businesses that have gone out of business or no longer stock any merchandise. I have looked at MM's site quite a few times but never ordered anything direct.
I'd like to put together an order to MM and get started on this project... Of course, I guess I could just shoot off a message to Don Silberbauer and ask him personally but I thought I'd see if anyone here has anything to suggest?
Thanks, Ed Oh no, you join this forum for a good modeling community and the next thing you know you're opening up your wallet! Sorry! I can personally assure you that Model Memories is still in business. Their homepage says "Updated January 2014" and the picture of Lance Mindheim's Northeast Corridor was just added within the last month. While I have not personally dealt with them, I have heard nothing but good about their company. I have seen a few layouts online that use their stuff. It looks like a PRR signal bridge may be in the works as well. I would love to put together a little diorama myself with catenary to take pictures of my stuff, but the investment is just more than I can handle at the moment. For a while, I thought I would scratchbuild stuff like Andy Rubbo's. However, after really getting into the articles that he wrote, I realized how involved it would be. I think right now I would get stuff from MM. BSH, Mr. Rubbo wrote a three part of articles for The Keystone Modeler. If you want them, PM me. Daniel
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