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Post by slowfreight on Mar 10, 2013 10:58:48 GMT -5
I asked about this over in the Diesel Detailer forum when it came up, but I'm hoping folks here have a little more info.
I have a stack of Walthers NJT Comet II cars, including one in NJDoT/EL paint, and when I started looking for reference photos I began to suspect that it's a foobie. All the photos I found of the NJDoT/EL paint were on Comet I cars with the low-level step wells.
Someone pointed me to a few Comet IIs that were supposedly ordered by the DoT, but all the pics of those were after they had been rebuilt and wore disco stripes.
Can anyone here fill in more of the story?
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Post by backshophoss on Mar 10, 2013 14:47:15 GMT -5
What was the year of NJDOT/NJT order of Comet II's??
BBD was the buyer of the Pullman-Standard passenger car designs,
and adapted the orignal P-S design for ConnDOT roughly late '70's-early '80's.
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Post by acelaphillies on Mar 11, 2013 16:00:52 GMT -5
You may want to try emailing cab4. He said is busy finishing up college, but he would probably know the best out of anyone here. |
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Post by slowfreight on May 27, 2013 21:36:38 GMT -5
Still haven't found a good answer to this question.
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cab4
Member
Posts: 149
Primary Railroads: Conrail, NJ DOT, Amtrak, SEPTA, NJT
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Post by cab4 on Mar 21, 2014 22:09:52 GMT -5
Better late than never... But yes, the EL/ NJ DOT cars by Walthers are incorrect.
The Comet Is were initially ordered to go with the then new U34CH locomotives in the early 70s (taking deliveries between 1971 and 1973). The first Comet IIs did not begin arriving until after the official start up of NJ Transit, in 1983, almost ten years later. Its possible they were ordered by NJ DOT prior to January 1, 1983, but they were never in anything other than NJT Disco stripes.
If you were brave, you could convert these cars, though the cab car would be difficult to do.
Island Model Works offers some very crude Comet Is if you desire them, but they will take work.
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Post by slowfreight on Jun 30, 2014 15:26:59 GMT -5
Speaking of better late than never, I finally checked in and caught your response. Thanks!
I actually picked up the IMW kit a while back, and I am fearless and will try to make it nice. I have the correct trucks from IHP (less wheel sets), and intend to use Allclad to paint it. I may actually repaint my Walthers cars with Allclad and just mask the NJT lettering. I'm not worried about the cab car, as I'll run one Comet I with a train full of Comet IIs and a disco-striped U34.
This has been on the back burner for about 8 years, but I'm finally thinking about working on some of the really old projects that just didn't fit my now-stored layout.
It will all still need to wait until I've got a workbench again.
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 1, 2015 13:37:45 GMT -5
A friend of mine got me thinking to ask: what's a prototypical consist for NJT?
I have a U34CH and was planning to pull 4 Comet II and a Comet I until he said that I'd want 3 or 6 cars but not 5. I only have 5 pair of IHP trucks.
Is my planned consist realistic?
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Post by backshophoss on Feb 1, 2015 16:36:22 GMT -5
Off peak ,you could run a 3-car set,believe 1 of the Port Jervis Jobs was a 5 car set
(before NY's MTA was involved). It was rare that cars were dropped off,HEP was rare and "new" back then
In most cases,on off peak runs,if there were 6 cars ,but only 2-3 were "open" by the crew,
the rest were "zoned off",lights off.
Not sure if the Comet II's ran in mixed consists with the P-S Comet I's
but the "polite fiction" was that car was inroute to Hoboken from the factory
before the "disco stripes" NJT scheme were approved.
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Post by backshophoss on Feb 1, 2015 16:52:20 GMT -5
A historical side note: The U-34CH and the P-S Comet I's were 575 volt 3 phase AC when built,
both were modified to 480 volt 3 phase AC that became the industry standard for Amtrak and
most Commuter operators.
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 4, 2015 0:13:28 GMT -5
Off peak ,you could run a 3-car set,believe 1 of the Port Jervis Jobs was a 5 car set (before NY's MTA was involved). It was rare that cars were dropped off,HEP was rare and "new" back then In most cases,on off peak runs,if there were 6 cars ,but only 2-3 were "open" by the crew, the rest were "zoned off",lights off. Not sure if the Comet II's ran in mixed consists with the P-S Comet I's but the "polite fiction" was that car was inroute to Hoboken from the factory before the "disco stripes" NJT scheme were approved. So 3 or 6 was pretty much the standard? I will do some digging to find pics of Comet I and II mixed before I get carried away. But I'd rather run 4 or 5 car train than a 3 car train. And trying to dodge fiction if I'm going to the effort to detail and kitbash. |
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Post by backshophoss on Feb 4, 2015 3:36:28 GMT -5
As far as I know,no model of the P-S Comet I's was ever done(maybe a resin casting done privately)
Granted putting the NJDOT scheme on a Comet II could have been a "Fantasy scheme" by Walters,
but could be considered a nod to history of NJT or a "gift" production run done at the request of
NJDOT or NJT to hand out to political allies.
An Example of a "gift" production run was the 1st Athearn run of NMRX F-59 and BBD coaches/cab cars
were handed out as thanks for approving the creation of the Railrunner commuter operation to various
pols and people involved behind the scenes.
After all the "gifts" were handed out the remaining sets were sold to local hobby shops to be sold off as
novelty items!
Believe 3 to 8 cars were the standard so a 5 car set could "fly",with 6-8 cars on peak service trains(AM/PM rush)
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Post by acelaphillies on Feb 4, 2015 9:41:35 GMT -5
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Post by acelaphillies on Feb 4, 2015 23:29:21 GMT -5
Although, they may have been one of their earlier releases that were cruder when compared to their newest models. I can't say whether IHP has done a Comet I or not. |
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 5, 2015 22:08:06 GMT -5
The Walthers NJDoT is definitely a foobie. It was a regular stock item back in the day, from a production run old enough to come with horn hook couplers. The entire Comet II car is sort of a foobie anyway, so I expected to do quite a bit of work on them.
I have a Rail Runner set as well...finally got a correct MP36 off the clearance pile, but the assembly quality was pretty poor so I'm glad I waited. The hobby shop where I bought it sold something over 700 sets of it, and even commissioned Athearn to rerun it at least one time.
IHP never did a Comet I or I would use that, but I bought the IMW kit. Crude? Maybe, but if the dimensions are reasonably accurate I have no fear about gutting it and scratchbuilding the needed detail. My stock Walthers cars will get massive upgrades anyway, as they don't look very good by my standards. Just gotta dig up that old RMC issue for my starting point.
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 5, 2015 23:31:24 GMT -5
No idea if this was typical or rare, but here is the prototype for what I'd like to build: www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=246033&nseq=6I'm cleaning up the IMW casting, and it's got quite a few gouges in the master pattern that I'll have to fill in. I'll also have to soften and straighten it a bit. Much of the crude detail should be replaceable. I don't know yet if I'll scrap out my foobie DoT car for the underframe or if I'll scratchbuild one. I did find some good detail pics here www.sterlingrail.com/classifieds/classified.php?id=3038 |
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